At this point it's fair to say that Joel Ortiz is the last of a dying breed. But even he, one of the last ones standing, might already be at the end of the road, as he told XXL that "Jimmy Iovine don't want me on Aftermath." Why? Partially because the Brooklyn MC has no ringtone rap appeal. His video will never be fit for BET's payola-plagued "106 & Park," where 99% of the "top 10" videos are strictly for teeny-bopper airtime. And the labels are 100% behind paying for their artist to keep a #2 spot on the show since this investment will propel into definite ringtone demand; the little girls just love these little rappers, and they know it. But Joel is too much of a lyricist to make the little girls giggle; teens these days only understand corny hooks and matching dances. And for this reason he will never get a slot on "TRL." He will never do what the "in" thing is in exchange for a little shine. Why? Because he's a real rapper who spits real rhymes. And his prime, his era, his sound, his vibe, had already reached its height back in the mid to late 90's. And the 90's have long since passed. It's nearly 2010.
It's quite mind-boggling to fathom how a lyricist with his type of swag even got inked with Interscope in the first place, in such recent time. Needless to say, now is NOT the time for real MCs to seek a career with a major label. It's a trap. It can't be done anymore. Those days have finished. You see what happened to Papoose, to Saigon, to Cory Gunz. It's no longer about talent anymore. It's all about money, money, money. The industry's climate is plagued with disaster. Those that get by are few in number. Very few.
Joel said that if he doesn't release an album soon, that he will leave the label. Well, buddy... it looks like 50 Cent went and pissed Iovine off. If Iovine aint f*ckin with 50 no more, you might as well just FORGET IT. Not to kick a brotha when he's down but, seriously. You will not be receiving any support, at all, whatsoever. Now the next thing is: unless they drop you, how on earth are you going to get off that label?
This song, "Ups and Downs," couldn't have come at a better time.
real MCs are a dieing rap huh
real MCs are a dieing breed huh
JOEL ORTIZ IS FROM BKLYN FOOL-GET YOUR FACTS STR8. BIG PUN (RIP) WAS FROM THE BOOGIE DOWN IDIOT!
YO I AINT PUT OUT BLEEK, METH, REDMAN, OCHINO AND SPARKS, PETEY PABLO, AND ALL THE OTHER DEF-JAM RAP ARTIST CUZ I'M ON THAT ISH! IT'S ALL ABOUT ME SUCKAS-FUC U DE-HAVEN--U THE PAST BRO! I ONLY PUT OUT NAS CUZ LYRICALLY HE WHIPPED MY ASS AND PYSCO-ANALYZED ME ON WAX. I AM J-Z---JIGGA MAN--LORD JAH-HOVA. I GOT THE HOTTEST CHIC IN THE GAME WEARING MY CHAIN. IF I DID NOT PUT OUT BLEEK, A NICCA FROM MY OWN HOOD,-WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I GIVE A DAM ABOUT YOU OTHER ARTIST!!!!!! THE APPLE VENTURE WILL BE THE MOST SPECTACULAR MONEY MAKING MACHINE ON EARTH. I AM J-Z, I AM LIKE GOD TO U NICCAS!! BOW DOWN AND SHOW ME THE PROPER RESPECT!!
Now I know the site to log on anytime I wanna hear media HATE ON TRUE TALENT!!!
Now why would you say ringtone rap is taking over??? Real hip-hop aint dead, slim. 99% of the problem comes from these "real lyricists" not being "real smart", if you catch my drift. A lot of niggaz is smart enough to make a poetically lyrical hip-hop song, but make bad bizness decisions. Papoose is the worst...... who the hell told him Jive Records was good for his career (Kayslay...... another dumb decision)??? Pap saw 1.5 mill on a piece of paper and said, "Where do I sign my life away?" Saigon, almost the same thing, except Atlantic Records is more of a powerhouse than Jive, but damn, travel nigga. Nobody outside of them tri-states up there knows you (I'm in the DMV, where 90% of niggaz say Saigitty who???) As for Joell, really??? Did you honestly think getting a banger on NBA Live was gonna constitute a SERIOUS mainstream push??? The problem isn't the labels, it's the lack of intelligence on the part of these artists who don't do they homework. If Pap would've called up Pimp C (R.I.P. Pimp C) before he died and spoke to him about signing to Jive, being that UGK is prolley the highest selling hip-hop group/artist on that label, I'm sure Pimp C would've told him that they was in the trenches for they 1st 10 years before they saw ANY type of a mainstream push (not until "Big Pimpin' with Jay-Z") I do agree with you on the fact that it's 10x easier to pick a herb ass ringtone artist out and make bread that way, but real hip-hop isn't dead, bizness smarts is. I think these niggaz want in so quick and easy just becuz of the fact that they more lyrically sound than Soulja Boy, Gucci Mane, etc., but the road is paved different. If you understand the hip-hop game in 2008, teens hop on them becuz there's no deciphering bars to guess what you trying to say, so somebody like Joell has to go out and search for his fanbase now, instead of like the 90s. Another thing is these kids and they wild imaginations. Nobody really cares about how hard life is, lessons, etc. these kids just wanna have fun in they music, that's how they escape reality. And niggaz like Sai and Papoose (especially Pap) don't provide that entertainment value in songs, while STILL being themselves. But coming from a artist's prospective..... I aint just signing a deal becuz 7 figures is on a piece of paper. Bottom line, if you got ya rhyme scheme together, but you sitting on the sidelines, you need to figure out what the hell IS wrong, insted of just saying, "the label this and that......" ONE
Interesting points Jay. Good food for thought. I'm an artist myself and you speak some truth. Www.myspace.com/layerissolidarity!!! Lend me your ears for a few...
Yo Reckless this is a great post right here. I promise not to talk shit about you in '08, it looks like you're stepping up your blog game!
http://cyberthugs.wordpress.com
THE MAN says...
JOEL ORTIZ IS FROM BKLYN FOOL-GET YOUR FACTS STR8. BIG PUN (RIP) WAS FROM THE BOOGIE DOWN IDIOT!
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You're wrong and obviously not from NY. JO is from the BX and moved to BK... Dummy! SMH @ These youngsters that don't know shit about hip hop!
http://cyberthugs.wordpress.com
# armand says...
#
real MCs are a dieing rap huh
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Spelling is a dying art!
http://cyberthugs.wordpress.com
I listen to all of these "rea' mc's" and sure their lyrics be on point,but everything else is just mediocre..It aint like the beats be bangin or the hooks be crazy.You can't just rap n expect to get sum shine...The streets don't determine what's hot anymore,it's kids n white people,so if u not appealin to them,u might as well do music cuz u love it,not to try n get a deal
Jay's deal with Apple will flip all that up. Joell could flourish in low overhead business model like that.
# EffYou says...
#
I listen to all of these "rea' mc's" and sure their lyrics be on point,but everything else is just mediocre..It aint like the beats be bangin or the hooks be crazy.You can't just rap n expect to get sum shine...The streets don't determine what's hot anymore,it's kids n white people,so if u not appealin to them,u might as well do music cuz u love it,not to try n get a deal
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We need to take hip hop back to the essence, when there was no hooks, just a bunch of scratching. Kind of how DJ Premier does it... Fuck a hook, it should be all about the lyrics. That's what's wrong with todays hip hop. All hooks and no substance!
http://cyberthugs.wordpress.com
I SEEN THIS COMING WHEN JOEL SIGNED TO AFTERMATH. DRE MIGHT RESPECT HIS TALENT BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY DRE ISNT THE ONE THAT HAS THE FINAL SAY. THE INDUSTRY ISNT ABOUT ALBUMS ANYMORE. ITS ABOUT SINGLES(RINGTONES). THEY GENERATE THE MOST REVENUE AND THE ONLY COST YOU HAVE IS PUTTING THE SONG TOGETHER. I PERSONLAY THINK INDIE LABELS ARE THE WAY TO GO FOR "REAL" ARTIST RIGHT NOW.EVEN THE RINGTONE RAPPERS ARENT MOVING UNITS LIKE THAT. THEY SELL 2 MILLION RINGTONES AND 80,000 RECORDS. THE NUMBERS DONT MATCH. I FEEL THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE REALY INTERESTED IN THE MUSIC ARE GOING TO SUPPORT REGARDLES. SO ARTIST CAN MAKE THERE MONEY THROUGH INDIES AND JUST TOUR AND DO SHOWS LIKE CRAZY TO MAKE UP THAT MONEY THEY DONT GET FROM THE MAJORS. THE GAME WILL EVENTUALY CHANGE BACK ONCE THESE LABELS FIGURE OUT HOW TO TAKE OVER THIS DIGITAL WORLD. UNTILL THEN, SUPPORT YOUR FAVORITE ARTIST ALBUMS. THEM 10 DOLLARS YOU SPEND ON COFFEE DURING THE WEEK CAN GET YOU THE LAST JOEL ORTIZ ALBUM IN BEST BUY OR FYE...
BLOCK ROYAL BX....
We cant let them kill what we started. We have to start the real nigga revolution! Everybody needs to go independant!!
We cant let them kill what we started. We have to start the real nigga revolution! Everybody needs to go independant!!
I think it's about the production too. If the production is on point then not much can be said. People will listen to the song just because of the beat. A beat will make a single which will lead to more people actually listening to what you have to say.
Easiest Way to Go Mainstream Without Selling your Soul: Make a song for bitches...even in the 90s niggas put out mainstream shit because thats how u get money. Pap, Sai and Joell swear they're too good for all that and thats why they starving, BIG spit some of the hardest shit ever but real niggas remember him for kick in the door, bitches remember him for one more chance
It's sad to say it but we exist in a time where shit ain't real at all. I hear plenty of dudes say real talk and keep it real; keep it 100 but how real are dudes really being. I'm not against the next man making a couple dollars but whoring himself to do it is something I am totally against. And (reallly Real Talk) most of us are whoring and dancing for some dude in a highrise seat who feels that as long as he has grown ass men doing the soujah boy in the club he'snot planning a revolution, as long as this females aspiration are to get in the next video she's not raising her children properly. (Real fucking talk) Niggas are cooning and might as well be claiming to be minstrels as opposed to niggahs. When you claim a term you become it. When I see an emcee Like Joelle I recognize the real is attemping to succceed in a dimension not build for reality to exist. So emcees revolutionize your game plan, your mind state, fuck the labels show them what time it is on the independent strength, if you looking for a label your looking for a pimp to put your dumb whoring ass on the strip and the rest of these dumb people who are buying that bubble gum shit are trickin and catching something just as bad as Aids it's called ignorance. Peace to the Fuckin (Real). The real is back.
# Mayor says...
#
Easiest Way to Go Mainstream Without Selling your Soul: Make a song for bitches...even in the 90s niggas put out mainstream shit because thats how u get money. Pap, Sai and Joell swear they're too good for all that and thats why they starving, BIG spit some of the hardest shit ever but real niggas remember him for kick in the door, bitches remember him for one more chance
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Great Points!!
http://cyberthugs.wordpress.com
yo JAYSIATIC...thats the realest talk hands down!!
hiphop aint dead the conscious artist aint conscious about their business. If someone like NAS (I like him by the way) is so smart and someone like 50 is so simple and dumbdown.. why he got more money?
if anything hes smarter.. he got rich off selling a bad product, nas is broke wit a better quality product. and I actually like 50s product, im just sayin what the perception is..
There is a market out there for "real" rappers. You gotta go attack it.. you cant put a record out and hope it catches on... theres something call "target marketing" I havent seen these "deep" rappers employ that strategy..
and whats wrong wit being in different markets? NIKE makes socks sneakers sweats and boots... why cant a "smart" rapper come up wit somethin' for the teens, something for the deep cats, and something for the shorties... FERGIE... sold 3 mill and styles sold 20K units lol... FERGIE got a reggaeton track out a hiphop track out a pop record out and a rock n roll record ALL AT DA SAME TIME in different markets... The game is not messed up, the artists are messed up... MAKE MUSIC AND STOP TRAPPIN' YOURSELF IN THE BOUNDARY OF WHAT YOU THINK IS JUST HIPHOP
WWW.DAPDON.COM
Real MC's are a dying Breed. I am almost at that point where I am just going to start listening exclusively to underground shit and joints that are in my crates from back in the day.
The "Bring it Back" movement is dead. To bring the real back I am now convinced that you must bring it back for yourself but the masses will never get the real shit again.
It is what it is!
Oh shit what happened here in '08? I can't believe that I'm actually seeing intelligent responses and good arguments today.. Great point by you DapDon...
http://cyberthugs.wordpress.com
just my opinion, I am happy with the declining state of hip-hop. We need to take back what is ours, because it is the nature of the beast to see something with potential, take it over, re-package it, and strip away it's essence through commercialisation. If you didn't know that...you really need to aske somebody!
Ortiz, is nasty on the mic, opinions do vary, but anyone who disputes this is prolly part of the reason why hip hop exists in such a state.
Hip hop in the commercial sense aint fo us no more. it's for kids and the suburbs, I am not gonna front, I couldn't tell you what mainstream videos are poppin right now, or which nigga ready to drop an album because I really don't care. fuck lookin for album sales and ringtone sales to justify a dude success, or lack of. I mean, if a dude getting his shine, then thats ok, but these dudes is slaves, directly or indirectly to the man who is whoring our product. All they doing is perpetuating the negative images of black people (hustlers, gang bangin, convicts, dancin, money obsessed, weed smokin thugs). Corporate America is getting bored with this, so once it dies, let's take it back and show ourselves in all our aspects. I aint sayin all albums should be on that Malcolm shit, or kicking knowledge, shit, I fucks with some ignorant ass music when I am in the mood, but we need to display variety and highlight all aspects of our lives, and the corporate dictators will not let dudes likeJoell Ortiz get his shine while there is still a buck to be made through cooning.
hip hop aint dead, you just won't find it on the TV
DAPDON says...
FERGIE... sold 3 mill and styles sold 20K units lol... FERGIE got a reggaeton track out a hiphop track out a pop record out and a rock n roll record
January 4, 2008 9:48 AM
THE-XFACTA says...
Oh shit what happened here in '08? I can't believe that I'm actually seeing intelligent responses and good arguments today.. Great point by you DapDon...
http://cyberthugs.wordpress.com
January 4, 2008 9:54 AM
glad to have you back big sun. been looking for you for months. i read this blog to see your comments, because they're always on point. keep doing what you're doing. you got at least one fan in me. keep spitting the real and eventually people will wake up. if not, they'll miss the boat.
BIGUP2bk says...
the masses will never get the real shit again.
January 4, 2008 9:50 AM
fasteddie says...
glad to have you back big sun. been looking for you for months. i read this blog to see your comments, because they're always on point. keep doing what you're doing. you got at least one fan in me. keep spitting the real and eventually people will wake up. if not, they'll miss the boat.
January 4, 2008 10:08 AM
yo the west gonna take this bullshit over this year. all ya old ass rappers tryn to advance, looking flabby n sick like larry holmes..need to take it like a muthafuckn man....fuck the east. the WEST is taking this shit BACK. the glory of hip hop was when TUPAC banged on the east and shut this shit DOWN!!
XFACTA & RECKLESS, JOELL ORTIZ IS NOT FROM THE BRONX HE WAS BORN AND RAISED IN BROOKLYN. HOW DO I KNOW? BECAUSE I WENT TO SCHOOL WITH THE KID. SINCE I'VE KNOWN HIM HE'S BEEN LIVING IN COOPER PROJECTS (IN WILLIAMSBURG).
i think rap is going to the west, this year. and like the east, they got substance so we might witness a westcoast takeover.
real talk says...
i think rap is going to the west, this year. and like the east, they got substance so we might witness a westcoast takeover.
u dickheads says...
yo the west gonna take this bullshit over this year. all ya old ass rappers tryn to advance, looking flabby n sick like larry holmes..need to take it like a muthafuckn man....fuck the east. the WEST is taking this shit BACK. the glory of hip hop was when TUPAC banged on the east and shut this shit DOWN!!
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The West will never come back. The realest artist from the West is Keyshia Cole but she's nothing but a Mary J Bliege Jr
prcrillz says...
XFACTA & RECKLESS, JOELL ORTIZ IS NOT FROM THE BRONX HE WAS BORN AND RAISED IN BROOKLYN. HOW DO I KNOW? BECAUSE I WENT TO SCHOOL WITH THE KID. SINCE I'VE KNOWN HIM HE'S BEEN LIVING IN COOPER PROJECTS (IN WILLIAMSBURG).
January 4, 2008 10:16 AM
u dickheads says...
yo the west gonna take this bullshit over this year. all ya old ass rappers tryn to advance, looking flabby n sick like larry holmes..need to take it like a muthafuckn man....fuck the east. the WEST is taking this shit BACK. the glory of hip hop was when TUPAC banged on the east and shut this shit DOWN!!
lol @ niggaz that are still stuck in the 90's says...
BIGUP2bk says...
the masses will never get the real shit again.
January 4, 2008 9:50 AM
January 4, 2008 10:08 AM
Homie, I am not only stuck in the 90's I am also stuck in the 80's.
Some times I sit back and wonder is this just a New York thing that I am in. We gave the art to the world and we expect a certain level of flow, delivery and content. Today cats get a pass much 2 easily.....
This is why I say there is rap music and then there is hip Hop. I see the 80's and 90's as Hiphop music and 2000 to present is an oversaturation of rap music.
For me I think being a New Yorker adds to my dissatisfaction with today's wack MC. These cats are do-do but they get props like they are crazy.... The other thing every one uses the same few producers so all the music sounds alike. All this shit is starting to sound like one big mix tape to me.
Yeah, homie I am stuck in the 90's because that is where the real is at.....
Other than Jada, Styles, Nas (a 90's nigga) Hov - (a 90's nigga) Common ( a 90's nigga), Cube (a 90's nigga), Snoop (a 90's nigga), Black Thought, Beans, and a few other cats, I couldn't care less about these current day wack rappers! Again homie; it what it is!
IF YA AINT CHECK OUT THE REAL MC...CHECK OUT BISHOP LAMONT AND STAT QUO....THEY COMING OUT THIS SUMMER.
Can someone give this man a deal. We want some real hip-hip, I'm tired of all the dumm shit that's out. That Gangsta Gangsta shit is old.
im from brooklyn righ...i just want to know why cats out here, not really in the south, but the cats in ny, always say the west will never comeback or this isnt 95, or stuff along those lines. for real if one of ya "real" dudes can explain that to me, it would be certainly enlightening. i have a nephew visiting from San Diego, and he has introduced me to a lot of west coast music as of late. yes in my prime i listen to, as did most of you, to tupac and snoop, but the new stuff he plays in the house is so much better than the "ring tone" music that is out now---and thr main reason i had given up on hip hop. but his music has sort of pulled me back in.
damn...yo get ur damn facts straight...JO is from BK and you spell his first name "Joell"!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't get into that regional shit. I only look to see if a nigga is dope or not.
At times certain regions put out alot garbage including New York but there is always a cat or two with skills amongst all th4 do-do MC's. The west coast have some cats I like. Cube has always been ill and Snoop is an excellent MC although at times he likes to put out some bullshit. The Game is nice but he just does some amazingly annoying shit when he is off the mic.
So for me its not about region .....it is all about skills and being real and nothing more....
Who gives a fuck if they're on a major? 80% of the shit I listen to didnt come from a major. As long as they drop albums, who cares? Majors just fuck up real MCs anyway by trying to use that album format and not giving them enough creative control. Its about time rappers got back to earning their shit by touring and paying attention to their fans. I been on that shit. You talk about how much money you got? Not buyin. You havent come to my city in a year? Not Buyin. Whats so great about a major? You know what majors do? They make haters.
They take an MC that is loved and respected, give them a ton of marketing, they sell millions of records and then everyone turns their back on them. Who wants that? I got dope ass shit from Jedi Mind, Swollen Members, Strong Arm, shit Talib isnt even on a major, he has his own label. Ill Bill, Necro, shit Sean Price put out what I think is one of the best of 07 and he isnt on a major. Psycho Relm, Ect. They arent on majors and they arent bitchin. These NY "MCs" all just wanna be the next 50. Saigon, Papoose, Uncle Murda, all they do is bitch. If you're so dope, then goto an indie, tour and earn your fanbase and quit fuckin cryin already.
Fuck a major. Soon there wont be any majors, and touring and actually generating a fanbase will be the only way you're gonna connect, IMO. So yeah, fuck a major, and Joell IS FROM BK. Ask Billy X. Sunday beyatch, a real blogger.
@ Jaysiatic
^^^^^
I co-sign on all that.
Soulja boy was killin it in the ATL and online before he got signed. What big song has Joel Ortiz had in NY? Since he's been at the label, what song has he put out in the streets that has had people outside of NY like "damn who is dude?" Same with Sai and Pap. What people fail to realize is that for every "lyrical" rapper that fails in the mainstream, there is 1 "non-lyrical" rapper that fails.
Pap, Sai, and now Joel are having hard times at major labels. So are Smitty, Amil, and a Hot Dollar, so it's not all about the public just not liking lyrics. The difference between them and garbage rappers like Gucci Mane and Soulja Boy is that the latter made at least one hit song. Chamilionare's biggest song was a concious one, and he got support from his label. If those "lyrical" rappers did the same, than maybe they wouldn't get the shaft from the major.
The shit is simple: Make a hit, then maybe the big labels and everyone outside of ur region will quit shitting on them. There aint always gotta be a gimmick, it just has to be hot. Or at least get an underground buzz bigger than your own block. Lupe is on Atlantic just like Sai was, and he get's major love from the label. That says the label aint the problem, it's Sai's fault his career is tanking.
well stated bigup2bk
EReal says...
shit Sean Price put out what I think is one of the best of 07 and he isnt on a major.
January 4, 2008 10:45 AM
That Sean Price shit was average at best with only 2 songs on that was hot - the rest was trash just like every album that has come out since 2005
Common's shit was wack too.
fuck the east u niggas is just a bunch of little house niggers running around your little 5 boros hahahaha. stupid city workers. the jews are the hardest and realest out there. THATS REAL TALK> hahahahahaha blow me haters
That Sean Price shit was average at best with only 2 songs on that was hot
^^^
I can see Hate Hate is on his job.
even the terrorists know who to BANG on!! hahahah blow me haters.
i gave common head for an hour. that was my big break in the male ho industry. thank god for common and kanye.
u dickheads says...
fuck the east u niggas is just a bunch of little house niggers running around your little 5 boros hahahaha. stupid city workers. the jews are the hardest and realest out there. THATS REAL TALK> hahahahahaha blow me haters