"As the years pass by, there is a younger generation that is going to start not knowing who The Notorious B.I.G is. The importance of who he is and still being the greatest rapper of all time is still evident [and] should be much smarter in our education of the Hip-Hop generation." -- Hot 97's DJ Mister Cee, The Source Magazine, Feb '07Biggie passed away on March 9, 1997. Next month will mark an entire decade since Biggie rocked the mic. Big Pun passed exactly seven years ago, on February 7th, 2000. May both rest in peace.
In the midst of it all, I have to admit that it's inevitable; the younger and younger generations are going to become oblivious to not only the greatness of Biggie, but of Big Pun as well. And it doesn't help that most of the ignorant rappers of today lack reverence for the great, don't study the art (come on, b...this lil' nigga Jeezy questioned THE NASIR JONES), and only do it for the cash; most real MCs do it because they want to, not to put food on the table. The essence of what rap once was has become quite sour, to say the least.
Had Biggie still been here, would Diddy be making this horrible music? Or would Brooklyn still be on top of the world? If Pun was still alive, would Terror Squad be a world renowned rap group, or perhaps an outlet for more classic underground albums? In case you didn't know, the first TS album was a gem.
But back to the subject at hand. I can't imagine a child asking me, twenty years from now, who that heavy Puerto Rican guy is painted on that wall on 163rd Street. I wouldn't feel right knowing that "Juicy" will sound as ancient to little shorty as "I Only Have Eyes for You" once did to me. But unfortunately, it's going to happen.
But that will be then, and this is now. For the moment, we can only carry on tradition for as long as possible.
"Yeah, this is dedicated to the ones who never made it/I hated the fact you faded away, you were the greatest/ So I say this prayer to pay my respects I'll never forget you cause you special/ I'll catch you in my heart may God bless you/ Rest in peace to my peoples who passed away (passed away)/ Best believe I'ma keep you alive always (always)/ Till the day we meet again face to face wit a grin/ In hell or heaven you my twin to the end, and I'ma miss you" -- Cuban Link, "Flowers for the Dead"
R.I.P BIG PUN!
To not have the younger generation to come forget who these great MCs were depends on us. We have to teach 'em....heck I'm 21 years old, so to speak I'm the younger generation compare to most dude that be on here(no pun intended)....but I've manage to learn a few things about Hip Hop from the discussions them dude be having....so to carry on tradition, we have to take upon ourselves to teach these young'n.
maybe you would have had to have been there when they were about to truly understand how great they were, like when cats get me to listen to dudes that was spittin in the late 70's early 80's, its lost on me. i'm not gon front.
But as far im concerned, BIG is the best that ever did it, those who wanna disagree can do so, but even today, the flow, the word play, the stories,the humour is still trying to be replicated.
capital punishment may just make my top 20, that album was crazy, u aint a killer, beware, capital punishment, all bangers. and wen i heard that 'dead in the middle of little italy' line, it was a wrap!
Yeah I'm feeling you on that shit Reckless. I think that the lack of swagger and pride in the flow of these dudes these days is because they don't understand the magnitude of the flow of Big Pun And Biggie. These dudes did it for real I mean the mic agression and swagger that both of them have is just a dying thing. I can't even believe that a guy like little wayne has the audacity to come at the necks of Nas and Jay when he has none of what either of them had nor the two Big's. It's sickening these days what rappers think is a flow. I'm ashamed of the emcees from my own hood Like Maino and red Cafe for makin us look like we lost it. Pap and Saigon seem like they got the best chance to shine but neither have captured or have the natural swag of Big freestyling on Fulton Street. What are we doing wrong? I don't understand how the flows have gotten worse then our predessesors. Hip Hop just seemed invincible until the best started dying off, Biggie, Big Pun, Big L. I just feel like the competetive nature of Hip Hop lyrics died without these emcees, shout out to the people tryin to keep it alive but shit just ain't the same.
BIG was so far ahead of his time i don't think these young MC's will ever catch up
R.I.P. Big Pun
Big Pun was more lyrical than Biggie and Pac. Get with it people.
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a lot of people were more lyrical than biggie was, nas/talib/dead prez. no one gonna front like he was the deepest on a conscious tip. but none of these dudes could see BIG.
pun was the shit tho, dont get it fucked up
@ manners j, I feel you on ur 1st post.
@ Realist,
really? Better than Pac...I can't agree with you on that one. Pac was a poet...not to say nutting bad about Pun.....but dude was a poet....the things he rapped about are stil going on today.
the younglings dont seem to care.
this is a gd post... sparked some real talk
gd work son
R.I.P. pun
big and pun were garbage,pac's music identified with the struggles of blacks[revolutionary]poppa and pun were just about money bitchez and fast cars.
They say Biggie is the greatest, yet they are afraid he'll be forgotten after 20 years. Wow! I say Tupac is the GREATEST, 20 years from now he'll still be relevant.
Oh! and unforgettable. That's PAC
(Just checking in real quick.)
Sup RECKLESS?!
About the blog. I dunno about BIG being the GOAT. (I know you didn't quote it, but clearly PAC was the victor.) But I think that PUN will be more-so remembered in the hispanic community. BIG will remained sampled in albums to come. The more important question should be whether or not the next generation understands and appreciates the music that paved the way. Will they be able to hear a sample when it played? Like this RICH BOY song that's out. You know half them kids on 106 and in the streets don't know that it's an RnB sample all the way. That's what I am talking about. Music education. (You ain't gotta be in a classroom to teach it.)
Shout out to NYC and the BX.
Biggie is the greatest of all time Pac could not touch Big. Wakeup Pac was not as lyrical as Biggie that's just a fact. He talked about more social issues but he was not as lyrical as Big, point blank.
Good post man, but you cant compare Pac , Pun and BIG. The just brought different aspects to the game. And to put them in competition when they arent here isnt fair, we dont know which way the music would have went(Pac might have quit rapping and been acting or running a label by now)But we gotta remind cats that these were some of the most ferocious niggas on the mike and to this day i cant think of any other cat's rhymes i have to rewind (with the exception of NAS)
sample when it played? Like this RICH BOY song that's out. You know half them kids on 106 and in the streets don't know that it's an RnB sample all the way.
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@Rocky
Where did that come from?? As I recall it, Biggie used a number of old school R&B samples in his music. The first song I ever heard from him was using the "turn out the lights" sample from Teddy Pendergrass. How quickly yall forget shit!!!
So Biggie was true to the artform, he only picked up the mic cuz he wanted 2? So what were all the Versace, Coogi, and Cristal refrences he put in his rhymes??? Oops, I forgot, he only cared about the art form.NEGRO PLEASE. Yall NYC cats have selective memory. 4 real!!!!
I gotta go w/ Biggie over Pac. Yeah, 2Pac was a poet but he wasn't as clever as Big. That nigga had swagger for days and a flow that was effortless.
Now with that said, I will remember both Biggie and Pun but I still say Jay-Z is the GOAT just b/c he had a longer career on top. If Biggie were still alive...who knows. But I can't vote on greats based off two albums and guest tracks.
That all.
PEACE
Come on now Zone 4, man. Dude is just saying that the next couple of gens won't know a sample when its played.
The appreciation of music as a whole is going to the pits currently.
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Thank everyone who posted before me, for turing this into a real convo, and not a chance to hate Jeezy (like the wrighter indtended) for having an opinion.
Personally i dont care if the younger generations appreciate the rappers we grew up on, b/c thier will be musicians who will make a great impact, on the younger generations lifes... i understand how you want your kids to feel about Big, Pac, & Pun the same way your parents wanted us to fell the same way about Marvin Gaye, Bob Marley, Al Green and others... but there is no need to educate them on it, just like the music for yourself, and one day they will appreciate it, just like i bang that old School R&B music now, I didnt want to hear it back in the days, but now i will listen to that and just get my grown man on. My nephew (11 yrs old), will bang the hell out of some Pac, (he never liked BIG) but it's time for us to pass the torch and let these new rappers do what they do, b/c in 20 years, kids will be remembering what they were doing when they first heard "Throw Some D's". the same way we felt when we first "One More Chance". if they go back and arcive some Big and Pac when they get older it's cool, cause we do the same thing with the Isley Brothers, and the Ojays.
i think we shouldn't concern ourselves with who's better. BIG is my preference, but i wont argue about it cos it is subjectove, i can c why people would go for pac, and pac definately was more of an icon, i concede that, n trust me, i bump pac all day, lets keep it how it should b, where you could have mad love for both. not like how it is today, where niggas love a rapper so much, they emotions wont let em say his 'enemy' is nice. i.e game/50.
also lets keep to the point that kids wont no the impact these dudes made, even pac, dudes mentionin pac, he in the same boat as big n pun, yeh they still releasin his albums, shit he didnt wanna come out.but these youngins will never know the impact and buzz these dudes had. yall remember waitin on life after death and all eyes on me 2 drop? ahhh shit! now im hearing these cats out today, who are average at best, is meant to be legends. Fuck outta here
ZONE
What are you asking me exactly? You take a quote from my post, and use it in aggreance with me? I never said that BIG didn't sample. You saw me write that? What are you saying, so that I may understand you clearly before I sound off (if need be.)
I don't think this blog is about who is the GOAT. It's about these artists being forgotten. Everyone is gonna have their opinion about who is the best. Everyone's got different ears. Right? Okay. So be easy and don't get your panties (yes those) in a bunch at 9am. You've got at least 8 more hours to go.
Big never wrote a syllabel down. He is the GREATEST MC of all time. On mic no one could fuck with Big Poppa dead or alive. Pac's a great poet and perfected his art much like Nas, Common, Kweli etc...
Big will never be replaced. Jus coz a rapper aint concious don't mean he aint got crazy skillz dont make him any less relevant, take Jigga and Pun as prime examples. Since when has street knowledge not been relevant to the struggle?? How you gonna sart a revolution listnin to all about you and i get around Blackdhalia??
Ignit Bitch
If You Tired of All of This WWE in Rap Music then follow me to www.myspace.com/demsouthernfolkz and also go to this link !!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abq9pJrZoNM
Biggie is the greatest of all time Pac could not touch Big. Wakeup Pac was not as lyrical as Biggie that's just a fact. He talked about more social issues but he was not as lyrical as Big, point blank.
Posted by: Jay at February 7, 2007 8:25 AM
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100% co-sign
Pac was great because he was rapping about shit that other MC's weren't. He also has a million songs. I think that's why people say he's the greatest because he has like a zillion songs. But lyically, BIG was better. Pac & Big are the greatest becasue almost every 106 & park rapper has "swager jacked" these dudes. From the clothes, to interviews, vidoes, the way they act, and even to the way they spit.
On the Hip Hop history, I think every city should have an old school rap radio station. Just like the old school R&B stations that play mostly old school shit, but still add some new school to it. I learned alot about the old school from watching Old school Wednesday's on Rap City.
Now with that said, I will remember both Biggie and Pun but I still say Jay-Z is the GOAT just b/c he had a longer career on top. If Biggie were still alive...who knows. But I can't vote on greats based off two albums and guest tracks.
That all.
PEACE
Posted by: New_Skool at February 7, 2007 8:53 AM
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If Biggie was alive him and Jay-Z would be making diss records at each other
R.I.P. Big Pun...7 years later and I'm still rockin Pun like it just came out.(Biggie too) How can you say Pun only rapped about money and bitches? Check your history youngin...Theres at least 20 songs Pun doesnt talk about money or bitches. Dead in the middle of little Italy little did we knew that we riddled some middle men who didnt do diddly. Match that kiddos. The greatest eva!! Big Pun and Biggie.
Young rock fans know their history and appreciate the older rock vets, but young hip hop fans are ignorant as to who the people who pioneered this lovely thing known as hip hop are. I mean come one, you have people coming on here dissing Nas and Jay just because their favorite flavor-of-the-month rapper has a problem with them. There are too many sheep ass fans and not enough fans that think for themselves. That's the problem.
How you gonna sart a revolution listnin to all about you and i get around Blackdhalia??
Posted by: Paper Long at February 7, 2007 9:01 AM
i hate getting on here and putting people on blast, but this is a real dumb comment.
I get around- talking about fooling around with diffrent women
One More Chance- talking about fooling around with diffrent women
All about you- playing girls from state to state
Big Pappa- girls calling him the man every where he went
This BIG Vs. PAC shit is stupid, they had the same subject matter but just diffrent flows, the only that made pac stand out is that he was talking about more than BIG. Big had Skills, but his music is more like what the rappers are talking about now, Boats, Jets, Money, Expensive Clothes & Cars & death. Pac touched on Politics, the streets, he respected women, as well as disrespected women, life and death, and he also talked about money.
I dont know where this kid get starting a revolution shit from, go ahead and start one, i'll be checking for you on CNN.
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i said it once n i'll say it again, that dead in the middle of little italy lyric was bananas. if u aint heard it, then i feel for u
Personally i dont care if the younger generations appreciate the rappers we grew up on, b/c thier will be musicians who will make a great impact, on the younger generations lifes... i understand how you want your kids to feel about Big, Pac, & Pun the same way your parents wanted us to fell the same way about Marvin Gaye, Bob Marley, Al Green and others... but there is no need to educate them on it, just like the music for yourself, and one day they will appreciate it, just like i bang that old School R&B music now, I didnt want to hear it back in the days, but now i will listen to that and just get my grown man on. My nephew (11 yrs old), will bang the hell out of some Pac, (he never liked BIG) but it's time for us to pass the torch and let these new rappers do what they do, b/c in 20 years, kids will be remembering what they were doing when they first heard "Throw Some D's". the same way we felt when we first "One More Chance". if they go back and arcive some Big and Pac when they get older it's cool, cause we do the same thing with the Isley Brothers, and the Ojays.
Posted by: Victor Newman at February 7, 2007 8:57 AM
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Did anybody notice how Victor here just ended any and all conversation any of us could have on the subject.
Blog over.
You may continue to post but only if its to big up two of the greatest to ever do it.
I think newyork needs to get over it yall cant be mad because the south got the rap game in a choke hole i like the south although im not from the south because they brought a whole different swagga thats what hip-hop is about bringing new creativity from different places to the forefront its alot of newyork rappers that cant flow ass why ppl are saying that the southern rappers arent great lyricist suck southern rappers as lil-wayne, T.I, Yung Joc they can flow its some like fieldmob d4L that cant really flow just like its newyork rappers thats garbage like p-diddy tryna rap papoose etc.. newyork cant be mad because their not at the forefront of hiphop right now yall shined in hiphop the west coast shined in hiphop now its the south time to shine weather you hate it or love it the south is here to stay with their own SWAGGA
Biggie is the greatest of all time Pac could not touch Big. Wakeup Pac was not as lyrical as Biggie that's just a fact. He talked about more social issues but he was not as lyrical as Big, point blank.
Posted by: Jay at February 7, 2007 8:25 AM
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Look i didn't want to get on this who's more lyrical than who argument, but y'all New Yorkers are always full of pride when it comes to yours hence you don't recognize who's beyond you, but get it right Pac will always be lyrical than Biggie any day of the week.
R.IP Big Pun
@ Victor Newman
That was the point i was making!!
i think its ironic everytime they talk about the greatest of all time newyorkers mention big but not pac just because pac is from l.a if u listen to alot of biggie records he talks about cars money jewelry and clothes just like rappers today nobody was saying hiphop was dead then! wasnt
You may continue to post but only if its to big up two of the greatest to ever do it.
Posted by: Johnny Old School at February 7, 2007 9:26 AM
@ Johnny
thanks,
I Give mad respect for BIG, PUN & Pac but pack was my fav in my opinion, I thought Pun was nice but i wasnt feeling him like some of his die hard fans were, but that's cool, they like what they like. I think the 2 albums Big put out were Heat, i still got both of them in my collection, but Pac was my nigga, he made music that made niggaz get emotional when they heard them, if you was beefing with a nigga and heard one of them beef tracks PAC did you would get amped up. if you heard one of them tracks givin love to the females you wanted to give love to the females. but that's my opinion, people will have their own opinion on who is the best, In my opinion None of them were the best, they all were great. pac was just my fav.
@ Victor Newman
My blog was aimed at Blackdalia sayin Big went against the culture. Did u even read it?
Posted by: Paper Long at February 7, 2007 9:34 AM
@ paper long,
I may have read your post wrong, i'll go back and read it.
follow the trends..thats all we do now. Every new artists puts out a hella mix tapes. pretty much copying some one else format and the n shop the labels. Labels dont care if you did enough units on the mixtapes you get signed. That's how it is now. All the stuff in the middle that artists used to get, ( like promotion, developement) is gone. labels don't time build their artists anymore. Biggie nor Pun dropped outa the sky with their swagger and flow that put them on. They did their thing and built their swagger while they developed their skills.
and dont start hollerin', 'they had mad skills always'. That's not what I mean, both were gifted musically and lyrically. But they had to DEVELOP their swagger. Biggie was doin the underground, touring and performing at REAL shows, long before he dropped ready to die. Shit, he even had to change his name rght before RTD droped. Pun too, pun produced and ghost wrote for mad dudes, Besides JOE. He also bulit his swagger and image over time. Honed his writing skills, and vocal performance.
Artist don't get that shit anymore. If you ready to go your not getting signed. And if you weren't ready you end up dropping an album that ends up in the discount bins. Every one had laughs for th DA BAND, and what they went through. but it used to be every artist went through that. Redman used to be the roadie for EPMD. TUPAC was a dancer/extra for Digital Underground.
Artist used to get developed, no they don't. That's why Hip Hop is dieing. Too many new artists are one hit wonders that can't make a decent second album.
Lets see how Paul Wall, Mike Jones, UNK, Jibbs, and every fool with young in their name, do this year. Bet most of em will do poorly.
LMAOOOOO
Mr. NEWMAN... great post. THAT revolution won't be televised however. LOL.
@ Paper Long
I'm a be a man and apologize to you,
I read your post wrong and came off at you the wrong way.
So you are saying that most people think in order for you to be a great rapper you have to be Concise? I understand, cause I listen to Jeezy and In my opinion i think he's a great rapper, just cause he's not rappin about politics, and "fight the power" dosent doesnt mean he cant rap.
I miss pun,biggie,and pac. HIphop has never been the same since they pass. That is why i support Nas and Jay cuz they came from that era of the best MC 2 ever bless the mic. Pun was a beast on the mic with lines like. ITS HARD 2 EXPLAIN HOW MY SQUAD CAN HARBOR THE STRAIN OF BEING THE LARGEST NAME IN RAP SINCE THE ALMIGHTY KANE,ACKNOWLEDGE THE FAME, MY COLLEGE TERRAIN WAS THE RUGGED STREETS FROM HARLEM TO QUEENS BACK TO THE BRONX WHO FATHERED THE DREAM. Pun the Bronx misses you but we will never 4get you R.I.P PUN,PAC,BIG the G.O.A.T.
May they both rest in peace. Everyone will have there own opinion on whos the best but reckless you made a point if Big was still alive would puff,puffy,diddy whatever he wants to call himself still be acting like a fool and playing part in the watered down hip hop thats being played now?
Listening to Ready to Die and Life After Death reminds all of my high school days and it does make me a bit sad that the future generation will eventually forget about him.
@ Rocky
I agree i think the Latino community will remember him more for generations to come. He was the first latin rapper to go platinum(correct me if im wrong)and his flow was just crazy.
I SWEAR YOU OLD HIP HOP FANS MAKE ME SICK SOMTIMES I WISH SOME PPL DIDNT LISTEN TO RAP 4 REAL. OK I LIKE NAS I GREW UP ON NAS, MOBB DEEP AND WU-TANG NAS IS A HIP HOP LEGEND I FULLY AGREE BUT IS THE FANS WHO PISS ME OFF LIKE WHEN NAS FIRST CAME AND PPL WERE SAYING HE COULD BE THE BEST LYRICALLY IN THE GAME DID YOU SEE THE RAKIM AND BIG DADDY KANE FANS THE PPL WHO GREW UP ON THEM BITCHING LIKE US HIP HOP FANS WHO GREW UP IN THE 90'S. NAS IS THE SHIT BUT IT AINT LIKE WHEN HE PUT OUT ILLMATIC OR STILLMATIC FOR THAT MATTER HE CLEARLY IS NOT IN HIS PRIME ANYMORE AND THATS OK THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT THE PROBLEM IS THAT HOW MANY NAS SONGS HAVE I HEARD LIKE A MILLION SO HE DOES NOT EXCITE ME ANYMORE BECAUSE I FEEL I HAVE HEARD WHAT HE HAS TO SAY ON THE MIC NOW HE HAS BEEN RAPPING FOR 16 YRS. NOW WHEN I LISTEN TO A ARTIST LIKE BANKS IM ABLE TO OPEN MY MIND TO SOMTHING NEW A NEW FLOW A NEW SOUND BECAUSE HE'S ONLY BEEN AROUND FOR A FEW YRS. WHEN I LISTEN TO HIS RYHMES I COULD TELL HE GREW UP ON NAS TO AND HE'S ABLE TO FLOW SICK IN HIS OWN WAY AS HIP HOP FANS WE HAVE TO LET THE TIMES CHANGE AND GIVE NEW BLOOD AND LIFE INTO HIP HOP. IM NOT HERE SAYING BANKS WAS BETTER THAN NAS IN HIS PRIME BUT ID RATHER LISTEN TO BANKS AT THIS POINT BECAUSE HE SOUNDS MORE HUNGRY MORE GRIMY MORE HIP HOP LYRICS ARE ON POINT LIKE NAS IN HIS DAY OF CLASSIC HITS. HIPHOP FANS NEED TO LET SHIT GO STOP HATING ON THE NEW GUYS AND LET NATURE TAKE ITS COURSE
LMAOOOOO
Mr. NEWMAN... great post. THAT revolution won't be televised however. LOL.
Posted by: Rocky at February 7, 2007 9:45 AM
@ Rocky,
I came off on homeboy all wrong, i got his words twisted... a nigga in here pissed cause it snowed out this motherfucker and i still had to come to work.
i think its ironic everytime they talk about the greatest of all time newyorkers mention big but not pac just because pac is from l.a if u listen to alot of biggie records he talks about cars money jewelry and clothes just like rappers today nobody was saying hiphop was dead then! wasnt
Posted by: easha at February 7, 2007 9:34 AM
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Hip Hop wasn't dead then because, everyone's rhymes & videos weren't the same. Yeah Big talked about the money & cars, but he didn't make that the subject of all his rhymes. Biggie didn't really start that shit until he was brainwashed by Puff (Big 2nd cd). Hip Hop is dean now because it fucking 2007 and niggas is still swagga jacking Biggie and that nigga died almost 10 years ago.
Rap hasn't evolved. Niggas in the 90's wasn't rapping like niggas in the 80's. Even in the late 90's niggas wasn't rappin like niggas in the early 90's. But in 2007 niggas is still rappin like niggas in the late 90's. Thats why this shit sucks. Now that Nas & Jay-z are rapping about different shit, young niggas is hating.
Biggie became the greatest when he died. Thats why everyone picks him, he was never the best rapper, are you crazy or what.
As far as rap is concerned, Big Pun was much better, and he was a good person.
Ask around in Brooklyn what people on the streets really think of BIG, the real person. You wont find much love for him.
Now that he is dead, everyone makes him a saint, it is sickening. Listen to the albums and tell me that Biggie was a better rapper than Big Pun while trying to keep a straight face. You guys are nutz.
Sup AZTECA? Long time no see. Well shit, its not like I've been coming through.
Anyhow. I am not sure about being the first Latino rapper to get a plague, but I do think he was the most influential- the most memorable. He was good IMO, but I say that because I am not a big Terror Squad fan. I just never got with that whole movement. But I respect my stomping grounds, the BX, and whatever comes from that soil. So props to Pun.
I think that Puff would still be making the stuff he's making now. I don't really see much of a difference in what he's doing now, from back then. He's always made the pop songs for the club. Always. Take BIG off the record and it would be what we listen to now. BIG just made it hot. Puff said, "I thought I told you that we won't stop." Lol. He's a man of his word. I actually liked the press play album.
i think its ironic everytime they talk about the greatest of all time newyorkers mention big but not pac just because pac is from l.a if u listen to alot of biggie records he talks about cars money jewelry and clothes just like rappers today nobody was saying hiphop was dead then! wasnt
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I couldnt have said it better myself.
These NYC niggas remember whats convenient for them to remember.
Wow! A post that's worth something on this site. When it comes to younger generations not really knowing the figures that made rap what it is it sux. That's why it's great that Nas did the "Where are they now rmx's" Hopefully it'll inspire some to do some research and listen to the songs and albums that brought hip hop to where it is today.
10 years and they still ain't got a suspect. Who ever the trigger man is BIGGIEs blood will b on their hands. But dang y would u want to suff out BIG? He never acted hard or anything probably one of the most humble rapper of all time!!! I hope his fam get justice!