Let's Talk About The Source Sexual Harassment Case

The sexual harassment claims former staff members Kim Osorio and Michelle Joyce are bringing against The Source dregs up a host of other gender issues in Hip-Hop. I'm hoping this situation can open up some dialogue with all of us and even spark some needed change in what we accept and don't accept in our culture.

If you haven't read the news on SOHH, or peeped our exclusive copy of the court documents, then let me give you a little snippet of what these women are saying happened there:

[Alvin] Childs saw Ms. Joyce sitting at her desk with a lollipop in her moth and stated, in substance, "I'll give you something to suck on." This statement totally degraded Ms. Joyce as a woman..."

And this:

On day during the 2004 Christmas holiday season, Mr Childs also heard Ms. Joyce was looking for a candy cane in the office and told her, in substance, that he had one but had already given it to another female at The Source who had to "lick it until the white came out"

As this case unfolds and we begin to talk about the specifics and the larger issues, let's establish some first principals, some base understanding that we should all agree on-

1. Hip-hop has a problem with women. Yes, all of America is sexist, however I don't care about the rest of the country. I'm talking about me and mines and what our faults are. Hip-hop is one of the last mainstream media forms where misogynistic and homophobic attitudes can flourish without anyone blinking. I mean, dag- one of our most popular songs this year had "Wait till you see my d-ck" in the chorus, and it wasn't regulated to a nighttime video slot or private satellite radio.

We got a problem ya'll. And any company that holds to the Hip-hop ethic like The Source may have the same issues going on. Can a rapper really say, "Slap a ho" in his rhymes, then turn around and treat the female staffers in his side businesses with all due respect? Don't think so.

2. Sexual harassment laws are foolish and probably sexist. The laws make it unclear what exactly constitutes illegal sexual conduct and doesn't recognize that grown folks are gonna act, well...grown. However, let's be clear- there's a big difference between making a casual sexual joke or dating a co-worker, and creating a hostile environment or trading sex with subordinates for promotions or bonuses.

Also, the law treats women as if they're helpless, powerless, asexual little girls who need protection from these surly, oversexed men who can't control themselves. Applied at it's worst, sexual harassment law pities women, instead of protecting them.

Now with all that out of the way, be aware that the charges against The Source are not light or trivial. If what Osorio and Joyce are saying is true, then some of the men at that magazine were "perpetual line steppers", as Charlie Murphy would say.

3. We can't blame women for sexual harassment. Ignorant responses to these type of cases usually fall under the "What did they do to invite it?" camp or the "They're not pure or attractive enough to deserve protection from sexual harassment". Some responses to The Source have fallen into the pure/attractive reaction. Dave Mays, the magazine's owner retaliated by claiming Osorio has had sexual relationships with rap artists. And others have joked that Joyce is not appealing enough to be sexually harassed (yes that's a link to Mr. Irreverent on SOHH Blogs, however as the disclaimer says his thoughts don't represent SOHH, or me, or blah blah.)

Both these men, Mays and Mr. Irreverent are expressing deep seated negative attitudes about a women's human worth being tied to her sexual worth. There's a lot to be written about that subject alone, but this post is already becoming too long.

We can and should have a higher conversation about misogyny in Hip-Hop, but before we do let's dead all these other low level myths and misconceptions.

Posted by SOHH Hashim at December 2, 2005 12:03 PM

Comments

I mean there is a degration to women in hip-hop and its wrong, but when I'm rollin wit my girls on the block, they listening to the same shit I do. And they buy that shit. Girls in the hood are all bout these rappers and all they talk about is hoes, clothes, and bankrolls. So its not only the men to blame. Plus I need to remember those lines for my company Christmas party espicially the one about the candy cane.

Posted by: HighLife at December 2, 2005 3:29 PM

WHOA, Hashim! Let's get one thing clear: despite the continued and obvious mysoginistic tendencis of (a small portion of over-commercialized) hip-hop music, we CANNOT place blame on the culture for the unwise actions of those at The Source simply because of that magazine's place in hip-hop. The bottom line is the way you treat women is a direct reflection on your own attitudes and what you've seen growing up. If a man decides that "he don't love dem hoes", that's more his father's (or lack thereof)fault for the way he raised his son. My intention isn't to be overly critical of your opinions, but I find it a litle troubling that a writer on a hip-hop site has hip-hop's over-sexed, women hating lyrics and the #1 reason on his list why these events may have taken place. I would hop/expect you to know better that to paint the entire culture as mysoginistic with one broad stroke, when a short moment to think about it will make it clear that it simply isn't true. Or maybe you're more clever than I give you credit for and a response like this is exactly what you were hoping for.

Posted by: PHX at December 2, 2005 3:41 PM

ONE OF YOU BITCHES BURNT ME AND I CANT PISS,
GOT ME ITCHING LIKE ITS DANDRUFF,
YOU GON SEE THE BACK OF CAM HAND QUICK
YOU DAMN BITCH
IMA STOMP YOU, STAB YOU
LOOK AT YOU, YOU DAMN BITCH

Posted by: the 'izer at December 2, 2005 4:20 PM

its the only way for them to get pussy ... so what else do you expect from them.... me ... i get it with my eyes closed

Posted by: v at December 2, 2005 4:47 PM

PHX,
the misogyny in hip-hop is not small or isolated. It's bigger than The Source. It more than the commercial music.

As a matter of fact I should have addressed that better in my post. Maybe next time.

Posted by: Hashim at December 2, 2005 4:53 PM

I have to say, as a young professional female, a lot of what those women went through at the Source, happens in some of the offices I've been in. I can't really explain it other than my own little personal theory. When you go to work, you're always at your best. Nice clothes, nice hair, smelling good etc. So for some people it's the best way for lonely men and women to hunt down companionship. I have seen it with my own eyes, and have had my own experiences.I turn dudes down flat out, and after gettin' called a dyke,( was I a dyke when you tried to holla, or after I turned you down?) I move on and keep my respect. I do not know what it is but, "some" men think when they see a young professional woman they have to try their hand. At first it's flattering, but after a while it's pathetic. When you go to work you are paid to do your job, and to flirt and make suggestive comments is very wack. I lose respect for men in the office who act this way because, it's like..." handle your business, your here to make money but instead you want to chase ass. you have already proven you have no self-control, and are mentally weak. you don't have nobody at home waiting for you? that's pretty sad, so you come to the office and jeopordize your paycheck, for what...some chick who's got a man at home, and is playin' you by gettin' money from you, her job, and her man....fellas, get your mind right. Control yourself and get a life. Sexual harrassment on the job is committed by the losers not the winners. And unfortunately I've seen some really unattractive women get hit on because they have big ta-tahs, and booty, so the looks theory is irrelevant.
Toodles!

Posted by: shauna at December 2, 2005 5:26 PM

I used to be a die hard fan of the source magazine and agreed with benzino about alot of shit. But finding out this shit just pisses me off. i cant stand eminem but how u gonna talk about him and do shit thats worse? I used to root for this nigga besides his horrible rapppin. But fuck him now. The source is going in the tank.I think Kim Osorio is their best editor in cheif ever. I dont care if this is hip hop, u dont fuckin treat women that work with you like shit. I like fat asses and breasts and shit too, but we have to respect their minds as well as bodies. To get to that level that Kimmy O was at had to be hard. So dont take that from them. Fuck Benzino and Dave Mays hypocrite asses.Its all about XXL and Murder Dog now.

Posted by: doowb at December 2, 2005 6:49 PM

Fuck these goldigga bitches. Hoes suing a nigga cause he said you got a fat ass. The Hoe probably do have a fat ass. Fuck that HOE. Death to all them money hungry greedy ass hoes-Fuck em. Fuck Zino and the whole Source crew them bitches!!

Posted by: Big DIC. at December 2, 2005 7:09 PM

Hey, Shauna, you are very true about what you said. when I was younger I was the one trying to holla at every chick that looked good at the job, but that never worked out becuase once you get with on and it doesn't work out, you have to either get another job, or they get another one or just face looking at each other after the break up so after my trying to get with some women and hearing no, I never harrassed them, my mother taught me better than that, but I didnt' see women at the workplace as people that I should date. I would say that the most I would do is be friends even if I did want to hit it. but I had respect for every one of these beautiful women. there's no need to do that if you want to be player as well because you can't really get a girl at the job and have a girl at home. that's just too much drama for one's mind. so forget Mr. Scott and Mays, Oh, I mean the Sauce, Or is it the Source, these days I don't even read their rag anymore because there are just too many damn ADS(about 30 pages before you even get to the "Contents" page). As for Benzino, it's good that he gets his Karma for saying all that shit about Eminem disrespecting black women when he himself is doing the same shit to his own, it is about how you were brought but I wasn't brought with my dad around, but I had a very strong woman for a moms and I would never disrespect my moms in no way. thas is how I treat the women I date, I don't date at the work place, becuase that usually tends to get too gossipy and I'm not the type to kiss and tell. I love professional black women becuase they have this poise and such confidence in the way they talk, smile and carry themselves in the work place, but I would admire them as someone I would love to find outside of my job, because that type of lady should be reverred as the backbone to family. don't forget who gave you birth, brothas, it was a woman, and you know you're moms wouldn't like it your dad or any other dude did that to your moms, so why try it on a woman you don't even know, yeah, I didn't grow up with my dad to instill his values about what a man is about, but my moms did OK with me. for all them ignant niggas talking about them hoes doin it for money, them ladies(who happen to be one Latina and one Black)deserve every penny they get and then some, plus a fat severance package. Shauna, you gave the light for all these fools to talk on. Thank you and may you be successful in everything you belleza. Cuidate

Posted by: nowwaitadaggonminutenow at December 2, 2005 11:33 PM

now we all know that 50 Cent doesn't do that neither, that's why he's laughing all the way to the bank as Benzino's non-rappin ass goes to the court to lose money on his white lawyers. should've known better than to fuck with a Jewish kid from Harvard, you know Dave is going to be alright, but Zino, I don't think he'll recover, remember he's had his nigga moments with Eminem and whatever. but hey, I hope he loves working for fiddy becuase that's what 50 gon' do. GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG-Unit BIYATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fucking window shoppers

Posted by: Damn at December 2, 2005 11:37 PM

YOU KNOW WHAT... HE SHOULD GET IN TROUBLE FOR MESSING WITH AN UGLY BROAD.. ANYWAYS LETS FACE IT. WOMEN LOVE THE ATTENTION... IN THE END THEY WANT ATTENTION.. AND IF IT RESULTS IN NEGATIVE OR POSTIVE OUTCOMES.. AT LEAST SHE WAS PAID ATTENTION TO.. A LOT OF WOMEN DO GET DEGRADED, BUT WOMEN NOW A DAYS' LOVE IT.. THEY LOVE TO ACT LIKE FREAKS, AND THEY LOVE TO BE FREAKS, AND THEY LOVE TO FREAK AS MUCH AS THEY CAN..... AND IT FITS IN WITH GUYS CUZ LETS FACE IT.. GUYS ARE FREAKS.. THAT POINT WAS MADE CLEAR A LONG TIME AGO.. BUT TEMPTATION IS A B!TCH, AND SO ARE WOMEN SOMETIMES...

Posted by: MIKE,SW,HTOWN at December 3, 2005 11:34 AM

Hey, nice posts guys...

I was reading it, and I must say that, we live in a society where women are degraded a lot...I hear 8-10 year old children talking about "hoes" "boppers" "bitches"....and it kinda spooks me a lil' bit....how are we to change this? well, I don't have the answer, but I would think that maybe pre-screening what comes on the radio...

Posted by: D-Nizzle at December 3, 2005 11:36 AM

fuck benzino, 50 will beat the shit outta him!

GGGGGG-Unit!

Posted by: tony at December 5, 2005 2:24 AM

Hashim,

that's "habitual" line-stepper.

Posted by: Ron Mexico at December 5, 2005 11:13 AM

Why does anyone even bother to retort with these southern hicks,hillbillies and goat fuckers?.
The south is akin to frankenstein telling Dr. Frankenstein that he had no part in giving him life!.
The south is a wayward unappreciative stepchild nowadays, we gave you that motivation to walk when you were still crawling and scraping your knuckles, we gave you a fishing pole and taught you how to fish and feed yourselves.
New York City is mecca plain and simple and we originated this shit called hip hop so we can critique anyone that fucks with the blessed recipe of beats and rhymes that we cooked up with a mothers love for an adoring child.
If you call yourself a real hip hopper then you must visit mecca (NYC) at least once in your life so that you can be blessed by the hip hop gods.
If you can't afford a trip to mecca (NYC) then everyday at 5:00pm you should face east and give thanks to the gods for giving you something to live for, something to strive for, something to feed your family with and ultimately something to die for!.
It is sac religous for anyone or thing to desecrate the holy hip hop grounds of N.Y.C with heresy and heretic blabber!.
Peace to the Gods and the Earths and to the whole N.Y.C

Posted by: R-FIGGZ at December 7, 2005 5:42 PM

I'm a woman, and I enjoy the occassional dirty ass joke...but to make women feel less than what they are. To have to come into work and worry about what is going to be said that day to you...that shit is stressful. I know I had to go through it with a boss of mine. I was 19 years old at the time, and didn't understand why I felt so bad. I would wake up for work and call in because I didn't want to be at work. I loved my job, and would have still been there had it not been for this asshole of a boss. NOBODY has the right to create a hostile work environment for anyone. That shit will make you hostile. Cuz you start wondering what the hell you're doing, and why can't you make it stop. It all becomes your fault. I started dressing like a fucking prude. Long ass skirts and shit thinking that it was my clothing that made him treat me that way. He was just a nasty ass old married man with no respect for women or himself. 10 years later, I know that now and I know that I don't have to tolerate it. If you have been in this position you would know that nobody wants to quit their job because of some shit somebody is saying. I know that I didn't... I had just had a new baby..and my livelyhood was seriously affected when I had to quit. But I could no longer take the shit I was taking. I look back on it now and wish I sued his ass too. I was out of work for 5 months...I should have at least got my five months worth of pay. These women deserve whatever they get if the accusations are true. Sexual Harrassment is mentally damaging.

Posted by: Jaime N Texas at December 8, 2005 12:27 PM

New York City smells like piss everywhere. Love all the shopping but the piss smell is overwhelming. Piss and hot ass......If I want to get pissed on and talked to bad...of course I'll go to New York. But I'd rather breath the fresh open country air and allow my kids to play in the street and go to a pool, not a fuckin fire hydrant..I love the fact that I can walk by a black person down here and speak..and not get mad dogged like I just took a shit on they brand new nikes. I also love the fact that I can pay 1300 a month for a mortgage, and not a 1 bedroom loft...I love the country...I love my country ass niggas...Platinum fronts or white ass teeth. I love the way you talk, walk, and move at a pace where folx can keep up with ya ass. Fuck these niggaz that talk shit about you but steady runnin they asses down this way in the wintertime. Fuck these irrelevant ass niggaz that believe the hip hop game is totally theirs...HIP HOP IS ALL OF OURS....From east to west ...south to north. I'd be a ignorant ass mufukka if I didn't give respect to NY for founding this music and giving all of Black America something other than old negro spirituals to hold on to...But I will not let a yankee mufukka tell me I'm a lost fuckin soul...Especially when his bloodline also traces back to slavery....and ummm yeah...The gotdamn south...If my mama, daddy, grandparents, greatgrandparents, didn't go through the shit they went through...niggaz like you wouldn't be able to have a fuckin opinion about shit....ONE LOVE Black America

Posted by: Jaime N Texas at December 8, 2005 12:39 PM